4-7 The 2025 ESG Outlook

In this episode, join Sirva Soundbites host, Luc Innocent and Global Supply Chain Director, Mark Cooledge as they talk about where ESG is at in the current landscape and how different industries can better realize their ESG goals. Find out how talent mobility can support ESG objectives and how working with accredited suppliers can help you better build your ESG program. 

Key Takeaways:

• How to include ESG into your employee relocation program 
• Using AI to create better measurement frameworks and more accurately calculate carbon emissions 
• How to use results from data to create better policies to measure carbon reduction goals  

Mark Cooledge joined Sirva in 2000 and has extensive experience in global operations, intercultural training services, account management and supply chain. He currently leads Sirva’s third party sourcing, contracting, risk & compliance, diversity and environmental initiatives as well as administers Sirva’s supply chain technology platform.

Luc Innocent began his mobility career as a household goods coordinator more than 22 years ago. He joined Sirva in 2011 as Global Account Manager. Luc has since held Director level positions in implementation and global account management, including his most recent promotion to Vice President of Global Account Management. 

Sirva Soundbites provides the insights, tools and best practices to help talent mobility and human resources professionals navigate through the evolving global talent mobility landscape more confidently and effectively. 

Get in touch with us: soundbites@sirva.com

Get in touch with us: soundbites@sirva.com

Transcript

Luc Innocent: [00:00:00] Hi, welcome to Server Sound Bites, where we aim to connect, inform, educate, and entertain our listeners. I'm Luke Innocent, VP of Account Management at Server, and today we are joined by Mark Coolidge. Welcome back to the show. Mark. Could you quickly introduce yourselves for our listeners?

Mark Cooledge: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me again. Uh, so my name is Mark Coolidge, director of Global Supply Chain, uh, with server relocation based in in the Dallas Fort Worth area.

Luc Innocent: Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us, mark. So the last time you joined us on server sound Bites, you talked about the definitions of ESG, environmental, social, and governance. What it encompasses, why it's important, and how talent mobility can support ESG objectives. So ESG strategies enable businesses to navigate the shifting tide of sustainability by integrating environmental considerations into their [00:01:00] operations.

Companies can reduce their carbon footprint. Conserve resources and contribute to protecting the planet. So environmental elements are probably the one that is most visible to the average person and likely where we'll spend most of our, our discussion today. Um, so we've got a changing stance on ESG from the new administration in the White House.

I. Just as we at server start gathering more data on our ESG programs related to the relocations we support, and ultimately seeing those lock the ambitions we had of being carbon neutral by 2030, are they still realistic? Are they still achievable? So diving straight on in, mark has ESG died on the vine a bit.

Mark Cooledge: Um, well, let's, let's kind of going back in reverse order with those. So if we start with the g the, the governance I, I, that's definitely not going away. Um, we're constantly seeing the entrance. the, uh, interest and, and, uh, you know, in compliance and, and, uh, regulations and PII [00:02:00] controls and things like that, that's, that's not gonna go away. then if you think about the s the, the social one, uh, when you're talking to de at and I space, that is one that's a little bit, you know, kind of con controversial, uh, right now, maybe in the shifting. right now. But I think there's, there's so much more to the s in there. There's around, you know, labor laws and, and, and fair practices and, and, you know, modern slavery and things like that, that it, that's the kind of things where I think they kind of blend in with the g with the governance piece. And that's, I don't think gonna go away as, as well. Um. think the, the e that's the interesting one where you have a, uh, a mix of, of maybe a little bit of a shift in, in the US in the, uh, the government interest. But when it comes to like the, the, the private space, the corporate space, uh, there's still a great interest there. And obviously in the rest of the world, this is still a go forward, uh, very important topic. So, um, I think that's probably the best to, to stay with the, uh, with the kind of the environmental piece for [00:03:00] today.

Luc Innocent: No. Makes sense. And so sticking to to the environmental piece, do you feel over the past year or so that the narrative has shifted?

Mark Cooledge: I would say yes and no. Um, the majority of companies haven't really started or are just getting started on their environmental journey. Uh, there, there is a. Uh, you know, a number of companies that are really far along in this process, and I'm talking both the corporate side, down to the supplier side, then you have some that are again, just, just kind of getting interested in this just to getting started. Um, I think what we've seen in the last, let's just say since in the last year since we, we talked, uh, there's been this kind of wave of interest, maybe a bit of nativity.

Luc Innocent: And where do you think that may? Come from.

Mark Cooledge: Well, I think, you know, when you, we get started on our environmental journeys, it's common to common to come in. You get all excited. You're, you have these grand ideas, these big ambitious and, um, you know what I like to call marketing sustainability. Um, you have these [00:04:00] aggressive goals, you know, and, and we were guilty, we're guilty of that as well.

Um, we came out with a statement. That we're gonna be carbon neutral by 20, 30 few years ago. Um, I can tell you now that we kind of know what we know now, uh, I don't think that's gonna happen. I think that's something we're gonna need to, uh, to revise.

Luc Innocent: Yeah, I was gonna say, I can think of most, most governments around the world are probably sim thinking similar things when they first kind went, oh yeah, we're gonna be carbon neutral by X date, and. Slowly but surely they're kinda like, okay, how do we get that infrastructure in place? How do we make all of this work?

So yeah, it's, as you say, a bit more realism coming into effect now. So, so what do you think is

Mark Cooledge: quick. So

Luc Innocent: what.

Mark Cooledge: I saw, I saw a billboard about a couple years ago, and it was a, an electric company, and they said, we're gonna be carbon neutral by 2050. And I laughed and I said, oh, we'll be dead by then. So, you know, that, that, that they could have been a little bit more ambitious, but now I look at it and I'm thinking, okay, actually that's, that was actually probably a, a more fair statement, so,

Luc Innocent: It's, but it is that shifting [00:05:00] perspective, isn't it? So when you kind of reference that na, the narrative shifting, where do you think those things are coming? What do you think is shifting the narrative for companies?

Mark Cooledge: I think it's part of the

Luc Innocent: I.

Mark Cooledge: um, you know, some, some companies are putting a lot of efforts and knowledge and money into their programs and have truly made great programs. Um, and this should be applauded and this is still the goal. but. you think about it, going back to the, you know, power if you're in, in mining or, uh, you know, if you're, like, for example, an airline and over two thirds of your GHG emissions fall into scope one emissions, you know, what do you do?

It, it, it's, you know, it may be, again, airlines could be 90% of your output is jet fuel related,

Luc Innocent: Yeah, I was gonna say, there's only so much you can do in that space, although I do, you know, recently read that at least the aviation industry is now looking at other alternatives, sustainable aviation fuel, which, uh, sadly always makes me think a little bit more of back to the future, where they're actually [00:06:00] using municipal waste, cooking oils, plant oils, and and waste gases.

And somehow they're making that work to, to power their, power, their engines and, and get the planes around the world. So, but yeah, to your point, there's how far can they take that without actually saying, okay, some sort of offset or an alternative is needed.

Mark Cooledge: Exactly.

Luc Innocent: Yeah. But, which I guess, you know, some of that plays back into the whole technology element and things.

So do you think it's greater awareness of the environmental, environmental impacts that actually creates new challenges for companies?

Mark Cooledge: Yeah, I. That's

Luc Innocent: I.

Mark Cooledge: challenge for many. You know, you, you don't wanna put yourself outta business. I mean, if we're sticking with like the airline analogy, um, you know, they, they, they are reliant on technology advances for, for a lot of things. Um, you know, they're, they're, I, I don't think we're gonna want to get into an electric airplane.

Um, not something I would wanna do right now. Um, so what you have to do, and, and, and then in the case of [00:07:00] like, you know. Server relocation. You know, we move people and that's, that's moving goods from place to place. We don't wanna stop doing that 'cause we'll put ourselves out of business. there are little things you can do.

And again, like airlines, they're looking at, something I read about when I was learning in the space is they, they, there's these things called contraras, which are those pretty little clouds that, that, that, that follow an airplane in the sky. And you think, they always look so nice. Apparently what they actually do is they actually kind of reflect sunlight back into space and create this, this, this like heat blanket. so what they do is they're studying how can they avoid, you know, certain flight patterns where they can avoid, um, you know. The creation of those contra trails. but again, with them, you know, with us, with, you know, shipping and trucks and stuff like that, there's a lot of dependencies on technological breakthroughs to, to make a big difference. Um, you know, obviously you wanna still grow your business, um, but still be, be concerned about the environment.

Luc Innocent: So kind of coming back to that, that infrastructure piece. And if, uh, we have the money, the [00:08:00] investment, then potentially these things can happen a a lot swifter.

Mark Cooledge: Yes.

Luc Innocent: But ultimately, maybe that's why the, the 2030 goals, maybe not so realistic when you think of the infrastructure behind it. So, which is the an interesting one.

Yeah. Good. So ultimately, where can we build up that awareness? How can we get people more aware of where did the emissions come from? How do we decrease carbon footprints?

Mark Cooledge: Yeah, I think, and again, that's going back to kind of that ambitious piece. You know, when you kind of get started and you're, and you're thinking, oh, I have all these grand plans. And, you know, you start with the simple things, planting trees and recycle and, and you know, turning off the lights and things like that.

But, but it's, it's really, and everybody's path is gonna be different. I. But ultimately for us it was, it was measuring. So once we started measuring our scopes, one, two, and three, um, you know, when you really start digging into the data, you start looking at the, you know, segmentation of the, the, uh, where the numbers are coming from, you know, where the, the, uh, impact is. really where you, you build that [00:09:00] awareness, and that's really where kind of the, the understanding of, um, is a, a more challenging problem than, than you, you know, go into from, from the beginning.

Luc Innocent: So you mentioned there that we've, you know, we've started measuring. Um, all of the scopes last year at server, pulling together some of that data. Um, what have you seen from the data? What did it show?

Mark Cooledge: Uh, that, so we, we started measuring, um, with 2023 as our baseline year. So we have, uh, now two years worth of data. And one of the telling observations, at least for me it was, was, uh, when we look at, uh. Are where, where it falls in the spectrum of, you know, scope one, two, and three. you know, we have cases where we ha we own our own trucks in certain markets, like in Australia where we're actually, uh, doing the work and in some cases third party.

So whether it's scope falling under Scope one or Scope three, the, the moving piece of our business was about 70% of our output. Um, so that's, that's a huge piece there. And [00:10:00] then you look at things that, uh, uh, you know, other areas where you thought were, were much bigger. kind of footprint areas aren't, aren't as much so, so that kind of changes the dynamics as far as how you, uh, uh, think about this.

Luc Innocent: I guess not too surprising considering that, uh, I was gonna say last large part of our operation is in the household good space in that moving space. But yeah, I guess that commentary doesn't surprise me. Um, but obviously we don't want our, our customers, our clients to stop moving, um, stop using us.

That's not great for our bottom line. Um, so what else did we see in the numbers?

Mark Cooledge: Well then, so, you know, I specifically are working in the, in the, the kind of the relocation supply chain piece. So that's kind of more my specialty. Um, you know, again, working with the, the House of Goods team as well. But I, again, I thought that, that I. Kind of the area of my space, my world or whatever would be a larger percent, it actually was closer to about 10% of the, uh, uh, the total output.

So it's, it's again, so if you take, you know, 10% [00:11:00] of the relocation out, uh, the kind of the, the relo suppliers, then 70% is the moving operations right there. You're already 80% of, of all of our outputs, the majority of our outputs in just those two areas there. So there's basically then you can kind of segment out our information into three. Large buckets, and then you can start getting into the details as far as the, uh, you know, what you can do and the, the, the rest.

Luc Innocent: Interesting stuff. So what is server planning on addressing the environment? Now that we have, I'm gonna say some better analysis on what our numbers look like.

Mark Cooledge: Yeah. Okay. So I think if we look at this in two ways, let's start with the corporate side. So corporate meaning service. So we have

Luc Innocent: Yep.

Mark Cooledge: at the server. What, what can we do in a, what pace? So again, I was talking about, you know, whether it's the, the, uh, business travel you, employee business travel or commuting, or the, the office footprints that we have, or in the direct operations of, you know, delivering the House of goods, things like that. Um. You know, what, what can we do and, and, and [00:12:00] how quickly can we do it? we do have regulatory obligations in certain countries and where we have offices, and so then we have to have, uh, certain commitments and, and meet certain targets, uh, in those markets. Um, and that's actually a challenge too, because if you think about it, you know, server worldwide, we have, you know, so many different offices around there in a world. And, um. So we can't necessarily say, okay, Serva has to do this. It, it's SVA here, has to do something. But then we say, Serva Netherlands has to do this server. Australia has to do this. You know, Serva, uh, China has to do that. And, and it may vary by, by, uh, by office and by region. So, That's the kind of where we're looking at right now is, is what can we do, uh, in that, that big and the little, and that is can be a challenge because you're, you're kind of, you have to really shift your brain as far as what are we, what are we, what's in scope for this particular area that we're looking at? Um, and then for our clients, this is, this is actually the [00:13:00] part that I get really excited about and, and I tend to talk to a lot of our clients about. now that we have two years worth of data, this is where we can really kind of start. Getting some interesting insights. you know, we'll have the ability to, to look at the impact by service, you know, by region, by policy, you know, kind of any, any way you wanna slice the data.

We can, we can kind of take this, this information again, with two years with the data, then we have a little bit more of a trend. Obviously the, the, the further along the. The, the, the more years we get under the belt, then we'll have, be able to fine tune that. But again, that first year was interesting 'cause we have these, these big numbers, but now that we have two years, it's like, okay, you can see, okay, was it something specific to happen that year is it, you know, kind of a trend?

And then we can, you know, again, look at it by, uh, you know, by client, by, you know, industry, things like that. So, uh, it, that's where it's really gets exciting, kind of, uh, uh, I think we can make some kind of quick progress and, and kind of do some fun things in the industry. [00:14:00] Right, right.

Luc Innocent: Progress into the third year of data, et cetera, you can then really drill into, okay, what are the trends, you know, we certainly know things going up, down, but now you can, I was gonna say two years is great. Three years will be even better. So, uh, yeah, it'd be interesting to see what we can, we can, uh, identify in amongst that data.

So what about carbon offsets or other offsets that we can, we can draw down on?

Mark Cooledge: Uh, I, I, that's, you call that marketing environmentalism. Um, or at least that's what the hardcore perspective would say. Um, that is a, a buzzword. You, you tend to, uh, kind of, the higher you go in the company, the, uh, the more common you hear that word. And, and again, it's, it's not, nothing wrong there.

But again, once you start kind of learning about what. involved in this whole space. You, you realize that, uh, uh, offsets are, are, know, essentially what they're, is, they're carbon accounting method to reduce your outputs from your books. So it's kinda like a write off. [00:15:00] Um, the analogy I always use is the leafblower.

So, you know, your, you're, you. You're out there and you see your neighbor, or maybe they have like a service company out there and they're blowing debris off the yards out into the street. Um, and, and that debris, that dust is still there. It's off the property. It's off your property or their property, but it's still there.

And so then that dust becomes someone else's problem. And, and, and, and then eventually that dust is, is gonna blow back into the person's yard. It go, it kind of goes everywhere. So, so offsets, I think are, are, uh, not really a solution. They're more of a, uh, a, a quick way to, you know, if you, if you do wanna get to, to carbon neutral by 2030 Yeah.

You can basically just, you know, write a check. Um. Send, send

Luc Innocent: And offset it.

Mark Cooledge: that, that, you know, imaginary carbon output, that's somewhere out in the space that you can't, don't really even, you know, own anymore, so to speak, but you're responsible for, you can get rid of that. Um, but then you're just, you know, writing money for the, for the, uh, the sake of, uh, you know, making your, your books look greener[00:16:00] 

Luc Innocent: And just hope that someone else plants all the trees that, uh,

Mark Cooledge: right

Luc Innocent: that is required.

Mark Cooledge: in

Luc Innocent: Yeah, I mean that's,

Mark Cooledge: it doesn't impact you, et cetera. So.

Luc Innocent: yeah, I mean, it's kind of, I guess when we talk about relocation policies and things, it's similar to. Where we've got clients where they kind of foregoing household good shipments, and they're making that decision of kind of, oh, it's fine. We'll give people a furniture allowance instead. It's, it's a more carbon neutral, it's better for the environment.

It's a, it's a better way to go. Not really thinking, well, hang on. The new goods that your employees are gonna be purchasing in their new location. They've been shipped, they're gonna have a carbon footprint. It's very rare these days for us to be able to go to the local store, buy furniture that's been locally crafted, locally made, um, chances are it has been shipped from, from somewhere else in the world on a big container ship, just the same as their household goods would've been.

So yeah, it's kind of, you think even through [00:17:00] policy design, you're like, oh, I'm making sensible environmental decisions when the reality is. Uh, in the bigger picture, are you, you know, you're kind of, to your analogy, getting in with some of that leaf blowing,

Mark Cooledge: exactly the same. I mean, that's a great analogy. It's, it's basically like, you know, doing a carbon offset, by not shipping your goods. So, you know, yeah.

Luc Innocent: but, uh, yeah. I mean, I guess on the positive, at least clients ourselves, we're looking at alternatives now and questioning policies to kind of go, is there some way we can. Be more carbon neutral, save the planet a little bit and give decisions.

Mark Cooledge: Exactly.

Luc Innocent: going back to one of my earlier aligner questions, do you think companies are still interested in the environment?

Mark Cooledge: Absolutely. Um, the number of our clients that have. Been reaching out to us in the

Luc Innocent: Mm-hmm.

Mark Cooledge: 18 months maybe, is just, it's, it's just, you know, it's daily. It's like getting it, you know, more and more clients are asking us, saying, uh, in fact, I just got another one today. [00:18:00] Uh, from a, uh, a client where they are asking questions, they're having us fill out, um, certain, uh, uh, questionnaires.

They may be asking for a CDP or, or EcoVadis, uh, reports they are putting in, in their contracts. and obviously now that we have. Gone out and said, okay, we have numbers. your numbers. Uh, we're gonna start digging into there. Uh, the, the level of excitement I, I'd say is, is just gone through the roof.

Um, you know, I'm getting clients now saying, okay, when can I, now how fast now can you, can you give us this, this, this greater insight and kind of go into the, the, the greater details. So it is. It is not slowing down. Um, I think whatever, uh, maybe kind of the feeling or the thoughts or the media, uh, presentation from whatever, you know, let's just say the US government is saying, I, the, the corporates are still going forward in this.

They're still, you know, they've, they've. Started that investment. In some cases, you know, if they're a manufacturing [00:19:00] company, um, it, you can't shift on a dime and stop doing something. So they're gonna keep going for this and kind of still learn more. And again, what's what's interesting is I'm, I'm also seeing on the client side that, um, I. There are some that are, again, very, very progressive, very astute. They, they really know their stuff and, and some where it's like, they kind of come in, they're just like us where they kind of come in saying, okay, we're gonna do this. And then they're like, oh, well now that I'm learning, you know, something, they're gonna shift and stuff like that.

So it, it's still really strong interest. It, and, and I kind of feel like, you know, everybody's in a different place. But again, it, everybody seems to be looking the same, same direction now.

Luc Innocent: I was gonna say so, but at least everyone's starting to mature in their journey, shall we say,

Mark Cooledge: yes.

Luc Innocent: uh, learning more and, and evolving. So what do you think, you know, what is the motivation for, for being greener, for looking at people's mobility programs to make sure that yeah, we're starting to align with some of those objectives.

Mark Cooledge: I, and I think it's, I think it's changing a little [00:20:00] bit. So you have some that are purely looking at the, there's the, um, you know, truly the, the environmental impact. And then they're, you know. Believe that they can make an impact and a difference for future generations. I think that's, that's something that's, that's there, there are some companies out there that are, or you know, that, that it's more of a, okay, well this is like an obligation.

We need to do something. We recognize that, you know, we, the, the business we are in, uh, has a negative impact on, on the environment or the earth. And so we, you know, let's, I wanna say it's like kind like, I'm sorry, but it, it's like a, you know, we feel like have an obligation to, to. To reduce the, uh, the bad, if you will.

Um, that's, that's being done. And so, and that, those are both great and, and, and I think, you know, any, any client or company or whatever that that is, is, is focused on this, that that's the important message. I think some people, you know, cynically make comments about, oh, well, they're, you know, doing maybe mining or something like that.

But yeah, mining companies tend to be the ones who are most interested in this space. [00:21:00] They're, they're doing a lot of stuff in there. What's interesting is people forget is that there's also a shift or motivation for being greener, um, from the, the changes in the generations in the, in the workplace. So, um, you know, you have people, uh, you know, my age where, you know, by the time the the, the planet goes away, I'll be dead.

So, you know, in some ways you could say, well, who cares? But you know. Joking aside, but, but then you have like my kids who are about to enter the workforce, uh, in, in the next, uh, well, months and, and years. Um, this is kind of an expectation. This is something that I think it is, uh, assumed. Uh, they've been growing up in this space and, and, um, and, and, and concerned about the planet. Um, and again, it's not like a. Like a, oh, we need to do something now about it. It's more like, oh, this is kind of the expectation that we should be doing something. And this is kind of, you know, the choices I make, um, are, are just inherent to them. And then I think another one too with the, [00:22:00] the, the one that's interesting about being greener is you can have green. Like a, like a greener environment with something that's actually fun. Um, so I think of like the electric car. So the, the, the explosion of the electric car. think when, um. It started a couple years ago. It was all about the, well, part of it, it was partially about the environmental piece. Uh, but then you had like the early model Teslas and stuff like that where it was actually like a cool sports car.

Well, now you have, you know, these other cars that, that uh, uh, it can be a 400 horsepower. Car that drives zero to 60 in under four seconds. Um, which is fun. So you have, you know, it's just like

Luc Innocent: A.

Mark Cooledge: It, no, but this is your dad's sports car, you know, but then, you're, it's electric and you're, you're, you know, having a reduction in carbon footprint.

So the, the. Incentive or the motivation or kind of the, the interest in the space can, can is not as cut and dry and not as basic of, of, oh, I'm just doing [00:23:00] something for the planet. There can be so many, uh, you know, myriad of, of reasons why people want to be greener. I.

Luc Innocent: It is interesting you mentioned the generational shift because ultimately I was on a, I was on a call the other earlier on. In the week, and it was about vendor selection and almost the one of the younger individuals on the call. That was almost the first thing that they called out was what were the, the green credentials?

Where did this person sit? Um, where did the, the supplier sit versus the other suppliers when it came to, okay, this is who we've selected. Yeah, okay, great. What are their green credentials? Where do they score? So are they the number one in the environmental space? If yes, then that individual suddenly became very happy.

Um, and you could see them kind of trying to argue it out for some of the others, but they're like, well, they're not green. They're not ticking the same, same scorecard in the environmental space. And I was just like, wow. That was the first thing that they prioritized on was the [00:24:00] environmental scorecard piece.

Mark Cooledge: That's

Luc Innocent: Um,

Mark Cooledge: Yeah.

Luc Innocent: pricing, it wasn't the benefits. It was literally straight down to, okay, where does this supplier fit from, uh, an environmental standpoint. Which again, for me generational wise, I was like, okay, it's a consideration for me. But obviously for the younger generation come through, it's like, this is an absolute, this must be the way we're going.

So, which is a, a great way. So, kind of shifting back to your car analogies, so we'll shift gears again in, in this conversation. Um. What are we seeing in the supply chain space?

Mark Cooledge: so in the supply chain space, I think, you know, your, your comment about what, what the supplier's doing, this is something we, we do in

Luc Innocent: Mm-hmm.

Mark Cooledge: events. You know, we have a very robust, very, uh, uh, active, uh, sourcing process. And, and, you know, 30% of our, about 30, it's like 28% standard questionnaire is around ESG.

And so there is, you know, we can, we can go in. So if you have a, a company that says, you know, I want. The, the greener supplier. We have the data on that. Um, but then the other thing we, we [00:25:00] do is we do an annual survey with our, uh, all of our third party network. And, um, this year was our fifth year of the survey.

Um, and, and this was the year I was actually really excited about this. So we, we launched this years ago and we've been, you know, I've been going on the, on the circuit, you know, the, the, the survey, you or the other, you know, euros or whatever, and, and saying, this is something, you know, we're interested, something, we care about, something we, we want you to start thinking about. And, um, the numbers in the surveys, uh, would, would kind of go up and down and it's kind of just steady and stuff like that. Well, this is the year when, when we saw the big changes in the, in the network, we saw the, the big shift in the, uh, the, uh, results from the, the, uh, survey. So, example, um, we found that 84% of the respondents have policies and controls in place to manage their environmental performance.

I mean, that, that's huge. That was a 26%, 26 point jump, from last year. So that's. Basically most of the suppliers are saying, yeah, we, we we're doing something. We're we're, we got something in place now and then, and then obviously once [00:26:00] you start doing that, then the next thing is about what can you do about formal goals or strategy and things like that. we actually had 63% of the respondents, um, said they have a formal goal and strategy to reach carbon neutral. That's a 27%. Uh, a jump from from the last survey. Um, another interesting number is we had a 31% increase in, in the number of suppliers that were formerly tr formally tracking their scopes two and three carbon footprint.

Uh, and that what blew my mind. 'cause, 'cause, uh, I didn't think we would get, to where we were that fast. Uh, and that we do have a, a five-year goal, uh, for different, different measures. And that's one of the areas where we're, uh, uh, looking at. And that's one actually in the, in the, uh, the scope three.

We've actually already hit that. So was pretty cool. And then, and then finally, um, we found that 44% of the respondents have a formal framework where the. Environmental friendly options and alternatives can be presented to the customers. So going back to your, your comment about, okay, well I want to have the, the, [00:27:00] the greener supplier. Uh, it's not about pricing. This is really tying into that. So this is really asking about, okay, can you. If, if wanted, you know, not necessarily forced, but if you want this, the supplier provide, uh, green alternatives to the customer? So the customer says, I want a, a greener relocation. They're gonna only show the bleed certified properties, things like that.

Maybe they take public transportation to the, on the, uh, uh, the household visits and things like that. Um, and this is part one of our key goals in our five year plan is to get this up to 75% or more. So 44% versus 75%. 75% is, is, it's still a long ways to go. Um, but this is the one that I think is gonna have that, that key impact to our clients.

Luc Innocent: I was gonna say interesting numbers there. And do we know if there's anything in terms of the goals that they had, you know, we mentioned our own goals of 2030. Do we have any insight as to, uh, [00:28:00] our suppliers when, when they're trying to hit carbon neutrality?

Mark Cooledge: it's a mix. We have, uh, we had a huge shift in, in, in, um, I think it was like a 221% increase in suppliers that have, um, already achieved neutrality or carbon, uh, negativity without offsets. Uh, just huge jump there.

Luc Innocent: Wow.

Mark Cooledge: Yeah. And, and I'd say the, the, the majority are in the, either the, you know, five or less years, or 10 or less years. Uh, you know, there's still some

Luc Innocent: Mm-hmm.

Mark Cooledge: that, that, you know, are think they're, they're kind of, we're thinking about it mode. But, but I think, you know, with that five to 10 year, uh, those two groups, I mean, probably where the largest number of the suppliers sit. and that's really where we were.

If you think about, you know, five years ago we were in the, the, uh, well, we came, well, five years ago we came out with the, the 2030 number. Somebody came out with the 2030 number. Uh, and then we started, you know, you know, having kind of more of, okay, let's do a five year and [00:29:00] two, you know, whatever. And so you, you, you evolve again

Luc Innocent: Getting some sort of structure around it. How do we measure it? What tools are there gonna be in place?

Mark Cooledge: right,

Luc Innocent: interesting stuff. So I guess ultimately that kind of brings us around now to, uh, talk a little bit about, about the clients, what we're seeing from clients.

Mark Cooledge: I've been doing all the talking, so, and you're on the client side, so, so, you know, I

Luc Innocent: Okay.

Mark Cooledge: you're the better one to tell me about what, what we're, you know, seeing on the client side. What, what do you see?

Luc Innocent: Yeah, I mean, certainly from our clients, it's still a space that they're, they're super interested in. Um, it is very rare that we don't have a business review where either ahead of mobility or procurement in particular ask a lot about what we're doing in this space. And I think that's really kind of, kind of understand how we server can support them with their own journey as well.

And it's kind of trying to align those initiatives that our clients have on a broader spectrum and kind of going, are we through mobility, through their relocation program? [00:30:00] Are we heading in the same direction? Um, you know, even down to. What tools are we using to track all of this? Um, you know, you mentioned EcoVadis earlier.

I know we're utilizing Sweep, both of which are getting a lot of interest from our clients 'cause they're the same tools that they're using and it's like, oh, brilliant. You can kind of, your data's gonna fit into the same landscape as what we are utilizing. And then from, I'm gonna say probably a, a mobility program.

There is that continued interest of certainly as more gener younger generations come into mobility programs of. What are the different services that could be greener? What are the alternatives? Um, I know you and I have had various conversations about how we could utilize client's, policy change, client's policies, come up with a more greener approach, or at least something that gives.

Relocating employees a choice to take a more environmentally friendly option around policy. So yeah, [00:31:00] there's certainly no lack of interest in this space. Um, I think it's where we've gone from, let's say a couple of years ago. They're like, what are you doing? Why isn't it here? We expect you to be running a whole fully electric household goods industry, um, electric trucks, et cetera.

Um. Disappear with all paper, cardboard, et cetera. Um, there, so there's a lot more realism today that we're seeing from clients. So rather than being done in a rush, it's, it's slowed down in pace. But with that, I think has come a lot more thought process around it. Um, which I think is really cool. So, yeah, no, certainly not a topic that's gone away.

And it's really now about how do we, how do we at server utilize the data and how do we share it with clients so they can start making tweaks. Their policies to their programs, to what they offer their relocating employees, and ultimately does it fit in with their wider ESG goals of their business?

Mark Cooledge: that, and [00:32:00] that's

Luc Innocent: So.

Mark Cooledge: what's what's key for us is that, you know, as the, the largest relocation company, you know, we have the most data. you know, if, if, if companies are looking at themselves, but then they're looking at themselves in, in, in the perspective of, okay, well where, how does that compare?

How does that, you know, look for my industry and things like that. And that's where, know, for, for us, you know, we have our inside reporting where we can look across, um, uh, industries or by, you know, by, by. By size of the company, et cetera. And that's where, uh, you know, I think that that's where you can get some really kind of, uh, you know, what, what's different about me? Why is my, my, my, uh, annual CO2 output, so different than, than another company that you're working with. It's the same size, you know, same industry. What's different about it?

Luc Innocent: I say those insight piece, and that almost comes back to some of the stuff that you and I have spoken about in the past around, okay, what is the. Future of policymaking look like for [00:33:00] companies and how can they utilize, as you say, those insights to start changing things around, making it a little bit more environmentally friendly, but just having options.

Um, I'm gonna probably steal a, a phrase that you use kind of gamifying policies. Um, so I'm gonna delve into that for a little bit and just kind of go, what do you mean about gamifying a policy to make it more environmentally friendly?

Mark Cooledge: Yeah, that, that's, that's I think the one that I get really excited about. So, um, the. Again, this could be a generational thing. I think the, the interest in, in gamification of anything, this is basically where you're taking, um, an activity that you do and you're, and you're, you know, whether it's like assigning points, you're, you're, you're, it's almost like playing a video game if you think about it. I saw this great, uh. Thing recently from this, this futurist, this little video about this, this, uh, this guy goes into the grocery store and he is looking at the grocery stores and there's like ads and they're like, you know, you can get points from, for, for buying these bananas and things like [00:34:00] that. But you could do this for the, the move as well. So you could look at a, uh, create a policy that. Is, okay, here's our standard policy and maybe let's just say here's a green policy. and then with the green policy, again, because we have all this data, so we look at the, you know, by, by, by, uh, um, the service and, and where it is.

So you're looking at a, let's just say a home finding in the Netherlands, and you're looking at a, you know, an airship into Singapore. Um, and then we, you know, know the weight. So you can kind of create this predictive. Uh, numbers around what would be the impact ahead of time is I think this is where we're going in this space.

Right now. We're looking at, okay, what happened? What did you do? But then once you have that, that data, you can start looking at, okay, what does that mean going forward? So in theory, a a, an employee could go, um, you know, on their move and they're, they're, you know. At a home finding thing, and they pick up their phone and they, and they, they say, okay, well if I, if I choose that property, it's gonna have, uh, you know, this impact on my, my, my [00:35:00] real green score. Uh, or if I choose that property there, if I, you know, again, do the, uh, get in the, the electric car versus getting on the public bus versus walking, you know, what is my. My score. And so you could in theory, create leaderboards within a company, um, that says, okay, these are all the employees, you know, and, and I, I don't know.

There, there's something that, that. Motivates a lot of people when it's like you're talking rankings and stuff like that. Have you ever been to one of those conferences um, you know, you, you attend the booth you get points for it and you, you attend all the sessions and you get points for it, and then they have leaderboards and at the end of the day you went a, you know, you, you win some beat headphones or something like that. you could do this in, in a, with policies and, and employers could actually reward employees with. With, uh, you know, achievements. So maybe they hit certain achievements and they get either what, you know, some sort of a reduction in, um, you know, a cost or something, or they get some [00:36:00] sort of financial bonus or, you know, there, there's all sorts of ways you can incentivize the employee on it, but just the gamification itself is going to be, I think, a incentive for a lot of people.

And again, as we get these younger people involved, they're, they, they, you know, they like the check boxes. They like to, uh, uh, uh, you know, get likes if you will. There's no reason why this couldn't be done in the, in the mobility space.

Luc Innocent: I'd just be interested to see how the technology kind of allows us to, to have that kind of experience because already when you think about policies. Your core flex lump sum. You know, we have tools to manage those kind of, let's say budgets by points. Um, you know, we've got clients who have cash out policies and actually, again, that's driven by points.

It's like there's no reason why some of those standard policy points couldn't be switched out for green policy points, um, environmental points, and kind of seeing how, okay. Let's start making some flexible decisions. [00:37:00] Give it to the employee to make those en environmental decisions, uh, and actually kind of track it, score it, and see how it goes.

You know, intra European moves, we've got great net rail networks here. There's no reason that people always have to jump on an airplane anymore. They could try and take a, a greener travel solution. Uh, and certainly we can start trying to track and, or at least in terms of setup of a policy in, in a system.

Look at how that scores and, and goes from there. So what else could we, could we look at potentially for the future, uh, for tracking or at least laying out a policy program?

Mark Cooledge: I. The, like today we do, you know, cost estimate. So we, you know, whether it's a lump sum or it's a full regular move, uh, you know, we, we have the ability to, you know, cost estimates. And so you create these tools, say, okay, well this is, you know, if you're gonna, this is your policy, this is what, uh, you know, two from, size things like family size, things like that. And then we can come up with a cost estimate. Well, there's, [00:38:00] there's no reason why we couldn't actually have a carbon estimator tool as well, so that you could have both a, you know, a cost and carbon, Estimator tools and, and, and have those in there, and you kind of have 'em both. And, and again, for the, the. Employer that is focused on one versus the other, that that's their choice. We could have that, you know, ability to, to share that with them. Um, but in some actually might wanna combine the two. Um, the, you know, we're hearing about, um, companies, obviously not in the US but in Europe, where they're already doing.

Carbon budgeting. So this is where they, you know, they come in and they, they set their annual costs of, you know, employee travel and, you know, benefits and, you know, manufacturing costs and whatever. And then a department will also get a, a carbon, um, budget as well that they have to maintain certain levels.

So it's kind of like the same kind of thing, uh, on the move. And then I think what you could do is, is. Again, just with the cost estimate thing, you know, you can do a a, you know, you have the pre-move cost estimate, then you have a post move actuals. And so you could do the same exact thing [00:39:00] with the, the, the carbon costs. You know? Did you, did you, uh, achieve that, that estimate as far as the carbon cost? Did you beat it? Did you, you know, uh, go worse and then you could look at the, the, the whys?

Luc Innocent: And that kind of budget to actual starts becoming really interesting in terms of the dialogue and how you then, yeah. Yeah. But then how you kind of switch up your program and things. So I guess with such a hot trend at the moment, where can AI play a role in this space then?

Mark Cooledge: this was coming. How did I know this? Yeah, AI is everywhere. Um, right. And it's, and it's nowhere. Um, so I think it can, I think it can, um, obviously any early adoption use of AI has its risk. I mean, there's, there's,

Luc Innocent: Mm-hmm.

Mark Cooledge: are you using the information for? You know, like I think the, lazy use of tools, um, you know, could have a disastrous. To your results. I mean, you're thinking about like, um, uh, I'm just [00:40:00] gonna say I'm moving from, uh, uh, Australia to, you know, Adelaide to, to Singapore, and I'm a family size of two. Um, you know, hey chap, GBT, what's my, my carbon output gonna be? It's probably not the, the, the time to do that at this point. Um, this is why.

Luc Innocent: Okay.

Mark Cooledge: it could be actually, you know, that would actually be an interesting study is to look at, now that we have this, this data, um, to kind of

Luc Innocent: Yeah.

Mark Cooledge: and say, okay, was it right? You know, are we, are we, are we wasting money with a formal tool? Um, I don't believe so. I, I do think that there's a reason why we have these formal tools, um, you know, the, the sweeps, the, the, the, uh, uh, you know, the other brands out there or the, you know, the fancy ones.

Um, and there is a lot of. Data, but, and, and, and thought put into their, their, their carbon emissions tools. I mean, and, and they are revising them. They, they, they evolve, they're shifting at, uh, you know, as they get more information I think of, [00:41:00] of even our business. Um, you know, the first year that we, uh, look at temporary housing, weren't temporary housing. Kind of standards. there's the, the kinda the prevailing thing as you look at upscale hotel things, which is not gonna be the same as as the temp housing thing, now you have groups like chipa that are building out, uh, formal measuring, uh, ways for, for temp housing, which we should be, in theory, much more accurate than, than what we're doing. So as we get, you know, as those things are developed, um. We, we, we can put those into our system, we can adjust our system, things like that. I don't know, ai, um, it's quite that simple, may maybe it will be. And I think that that's something as we, we see it, it's evolving. I think the other concern you have to worry about with AI is obviously the segment. Segment segmenting out your data. So it's, you know, the PII information, you know, is no way we're gonna say, okay, [00:42:00] uh, these are client A, B, C, and, you know, and, and these are the, the, uh, you know, all the data where people are moving to, and we're gonna stick that out into the, uh, uh, the public realm.

I mean, there's certain, you know, open ai, uh, spaces where you're, you're basically leaking all your secrets and you know. Information out to, to the world, which you definitely don't wanna do. And that's not that would be, uh, uh, good for our clients. Um, but then there are things that, that it can work very well for.

So for example, if you're looking at distance calculations, so, um, you know, if you're looking at a, uh, a shipment uh, a good, so let's just say again Adela to to Singapore, uh, if we actually have the, the actual data of how far the boat. and maybe it had to, you know, go around a storm or something like that.

That would be the most accurate way to do it. You can't, the, the, one of the things we actually found in, in some tools is that they actually look at it from a straight line, um, [00:43:00] perspective. So it as the crow flies, if you will, uh, from, from Adelaide to Singapore, well that's not accurate either. 'cause the boats, you know, kind of going around and you know, has, maybe has to go right.

Indonesia or something like that, you know, and, and so it's, it's not a straight line either. So. This is something where AI actually can, um, be a good use case for, for looking at the, you know, more accurate data. 'cause again, it's, it's, it's, you know, if you tell it, this is by, by ocean or by surface, uh, and the same with roads, you know, it's not a straight drive from, from, from Prague to uh, uh, Athens. um, is where, uh, that would be a good example. I. Very bullish of the prospect of incorporating AI into, to kind of the collection analysis of this. But, um, I think it's, there's so much going on with AI right now and excitements around there that, that this is probably, you know, at certain point we'll figure out where it works.

And I think some probably have already figured this out, but it's, at this point, it's not like a a, an immediate priority.[00:44:00] 

Luc Innocent: I was gonna say, it's just gonna be about finding time capacity to, to teach AI what is needed in this space to, to really come up with a good picture and a good story. I'm gonna be mean. Are you, you kind of speaking of processes, are you someone to go to to learn how to build a process?

Mark Cooledge: Uh, no, I don't think so. Um, you know, my, my formal background is actually I have a, is in Chinese studies, so I could, I could explain to you about the, uh, the, the, the pitfalls of the, the, the, the policy of the great leap forward in China in the, in the sixties. But, you know, when it comes to to, to data and science and things like that, I, I don't necessarily have a formal training in there, so I can give you. Thoughts, I can give you opinions, I can give you these big well ideas, you know, things that, that pie in the sky dreaming of where I think we can go. but I think as far as if you are starting on your journey as far as what you know, I. Where to, uh, learn this thing. So I, I'm probably more of a, you know, like a, a information desk, a [00:45:00] point there and go over there. And so I think there is a ton of, of formal available training out there. Um, you know, it's both paid and, and free. Uh, once you sign up for some of these things, you're gonna get. All sorts of invitations to, uh, uh, free conferences and things like that. you know, with, with, again, when we implemented Sweep, there's actually this, this whole built-in sweep school in there that you have to go through all these courses and, and, and learn all this stuff, um, which is great.

Again, I'm not a science guy, so some of the stuff, I read this and I'm like, well, I have no idea what I just read. Um, but it sounds great and I'm sure some, somebody much smarter and, and much younger, uh, you know, came up with all these things. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. So somebody, you know, as long as somebody's building the tool and, and validating it, that's, that's kind of what, what I care about. But I think that, um, you know, you do this training. You, you, you talk to people, you talk to your peers, you talk to your, your, you know, your customers, your clients. this is really where you get, uh, a [00:46:00] better, uh, understanding of the space. I think. I think if anything you can think of, you know, myself, I'm, I'm kind of more like an offset than anything, than, than actually a true solution, if you will. So.

Luc Innocent: I like it. Cool. Well. I'm looking, we're coming up to time. So Mark, I just wanted to say a, a huge thank you for sharing your insights, the data, um, really appreciated. I'm sure our listeners have benefited greatly from the discussion today. Uh, but before I go, uh, we would like you to share a top tip with our listeners.

Um, what do you have for our listeners today?

Mark Cooledge: I think the top tip is, is the, to, to what I said earlier, just, just start reading, start learning, start uh, uh, getting that basic understanding. It, it's the really key is, is and, and I'm, I'm gonna quote one of our, our suppliers. I'll go ahead and give him by name, Robert Baldwin Pack and Pack's a great guy and apparently he maybe stole this from somebody else, but he said just start going forward.

Just start moving forward. That's really the key thing there. Um. [00:47:00] And again, as we learned from the be, you know, discussed the beginning of the call, um, don't expect your journey to be in a straight line. Um, expect it to have twists and turns. Um, as you get more information, you can, uh, you know, speed up, slow down, adjust your course as you go.

And that's, that's really the, the whole key is, is to be open, be flexible, and, and just absorb as much as you can.

Luc Innocent: So it's been such a pleasure to have you on our show today. Uh, once again, to our listeners, thank you so much for listening to Server Sound Bites. If you enjoy our show, please click subscribe and share and be sure to come back next time. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to drop us a note@soundbitesatserver.com.

Until then, this is Luke and Mark. And don't forget, server provides everything needed to move talent and deliver experience. See you next time.[00:48:00] 

Awesome.